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Tuesday, January 25, 2011

APPROVED!!!

Details will be forthcoming as faithful readers chime in on the meeting, but our informants tell us the Design Review for the proposed Green Valley Academy was approved this evening.  The vote was 5-2.

As for the Red Moose Lodge Heliport, it was tabled pending further review.

We hear the meeting was lengthy and heated.  The floor is now open for those in attendance to spill the beans!

56 comments:

Fred said...

Reposting my comment here about the meeting:

Tonight's meeting proved to me just how broken the zoning system is if one person, Ben Hadfield (just doing his job), makes the defining decision on whether a business is a school or not and I think we all agreed it is not a school by any stretch of the imagination. This was over before it got to the planning commission, which is a sad fact.

So, it is incumbent upon us residents to take the next step and petition to have the zoning and/or process changed so that these types of determinations are not made by a lone individual. The planning commission should have the right to question and overturn "staff's" interpretation of the business entity definition.

Thereby, I propose the "Green Valley NO MORE" initiative to change our county processes and zoning to tighten the definition of what a school consititutes. Dr. Balmer, his smug lawyer, and their combined ilk will be exploiting this to the hilt unless we act quickly.

What you can do:

1. Write your county planning commission and county commission to protest the process and demand that it be changed. To be classified as a school, a for profit business should have extra hoops to jump through than just one person. Green Valley NO MORE!

2. Write your state representative. Investigate what can be done at the state level to prevent further exploit of this gray area. Green Valley NO MORE!

3. Look for ways to decrease the attractiveness of the current location. Making up Green Valley NO MORE! signs to greet their customers perpetually will have some effect. We have a right to state our opinion.

4. Neighbors, don't let them get away with visually appealing fencing! Consider insisting on high privacy/security walls that cost way more and make it seem more prison like. Green Valley NO MORE!

5. Finally, whatever can be done to increase their cost should be explored. The less profitable the site is, the less attractive it is.

I'm going to start working to get the process changed so that Ben isn't charged/stuck with making these types of decisions that cannot be changed by the planning commission. It's not fair. Will you do the same?

Green Valley NO MORE!
Fred Smullin
East Huntsville

SundanceKid said...

It may have been approved but the only approval was on the design. And the big issue with water, sewer, traffic etc. this is not the end of the line. The commission strongly voiced there frustration and said that they were calling themselves a "school" and they are a infact a treatment center. Unfortunately this is a loop hole and the commission could only consider the design. One thing I must say. The commission relys on what they are being told as "the truth." And all their decision will be made based on "the truth" as they are being told, well then I think they need to started swearing people in and let it be clear that they can be charged with perjury for lieing about, distorting or omitting the truth for there benefit. Also the real issue here was that they are calling themselves something their not so they can get approval and slide on in. Reminds me of a commercial from when I was a kid....and I must say it. "Silly rabbit trix are for kids." No matter how they dress themselves up, label themselves as. No matter who they get to distort things, omit things or flat out lie for them. We will always see through it as easily as they did in the above mentioned line. The way they have gone about this is so low ball and disrespectful...now they will see what happens when you back numerous people into a corner. We will come back swinging. And see this through til the end.

SundanceKid said...

Fred...I agree. I was beside my self. We have the signs now. We can get more made. Thanks for the support.

Greg Anderson said...

Reposted here for continuity

I would like to thank Commissioner Laura Warburton for telling it like it is. She admitted that the individual commissioners operate in fear of personal lawsuits and nobody else on the Ogden Valley Planning Commission disputed what she said about that (although they seemed very uneasy about the fact that she said it). So the cat's out of the bag. The effectiveness of the commission to do the right thing is clouded by their fear of being personally sued. Something to chew on.

Teri said...

Reposted here for continuity

I think you underestimate Ben's culpability. When I conversed with him last week, he made it clear that this process would only go to the OVPC. He did his job to please the petitioners, while we believe he should work for the good of the valley. What I think shocked him was the vast amount of concern from citizens. He stated to me that he thought that our only concerns from the first proposal was the road and the existing home being made into an administrative building. And according to him, he resolved those issues. The process tonight was a joke. I keep going back to the town meeting and Mrs Balmer pretending they only wanted to find a way to be good neighbors. After that display tonight, my head is about to explode.

The suggestions Fred makes are good. This isn't over.

Teri said...

We really shouldn't be shocked. These people are snakes. A few of these people really do live up here. They work with kids, in public and private schools. Don't kid yourself. It's all about the money. And keeping it out of their neighborhood.

After watching this pathetic display of government in action, it is not shocking that people give up.

After listening to all the people talking about the recreational and business opportunities that awaits them (from the earlier agenda item), trying to preserve the rural atmosphere will be difficult.
But not impossible. They won this round. But this is a long fight. Two people did the right thing tonight.

If we don't have an OVPC, what would the design review process look like. What really is their purpose. I guess we can now all open a "school" and do what we like. We can have all sorts of "schools" around. The guy sitting behind me thought he might like to open an brothel type "school"! As long as the picture is pretty, all is well.

Teri said...

P.S. Re the helipad. What does tabled pending review mean. Are they flying now and can keep flying until someone comes up with a new location or plan. Is it like the agenda item on a temporary park and ride lot that has been temporary for years. Just curious?

Richard said...

As Teri said, this was only the first round and it will be a difficult fight for GVA IF we residents get and stay unified.

Fred's ideas are spot on, now we just have to follow through.

It seems as though GVA used the same public relations firm as Powder Mountain (tongue in cheek). Tell us they want to be good neighbors but bring in the big guns to a knife fight.

Of course it's all about the money and they could care less about any of us, so we need to feel the same about them and watch EVERY move they make throughout the upcoming long process.

Thanks to Sundance Kid, Teri, Greg A., Ron G. and others for your efforts and for keeping us all informed.

It's time to let Jared Balmer and friends know how much we love our valley!

Richard Sorensen

No More Green Valley said...

Who were the NO Voters? They are my heroes!

Lindbergh said...

If they are flying now, complain about the noise to the FAA in writing. If they get enough complaints they will react. Don't just talk about complaining, take action!!

Teri said...

I have read and re-read the zoning ordinances and application criteria for a design review (Chapter 36). I provide the following: The Planning Commission and/or Planning Director shall consider the following matters AND OTHERS WHEN APPLICABLE. (I don't know how to underline so I will yell instead!) The application approval criteria cites several conditions. The final condition states: Considerations relating to utility easements, drainage and other engineering questions. You could have driven a mack truck through this hole last night. The OVPC was given an IOU. And they could come up with nothing but a berm? These commissioners kept saying that they were told 36-4 trumps all. I don't see it that way. We were played. In an earlier post I stated that I didn't think they thought we were stupid, that they just knew how to exploit the zoning laws. I change my mind. I think they do think we are stupid, and am convinced the county does also. Time will tell, but I think there is a lot more to this story. The shuffling of the docket was just the beginning. There were a few other odd ball statements last night. Richard is right. We brought a stick to a knife fight.

Greg Anderson said...

Every commissioner who sorrowfully voted yes should do the honorable thing and resign. If this is all they feel they can do when something so outrageous is put before them, they have exposed themselves as ineffective. We cannot accept, "I'm sorry. My hands are tied," If you think it's illegal to use your brain then you don't belong in your position,

Teri said...

Of course it is kind of difficult to fight when the chair allows the petitioners' attorney to set the agenda. I really was wondering why he didn't just let the guy have his gavel! I'm not buying "their hands are tied". I'm am not sympathetic. They made their decisions. They will have to defend them.

ND said...

Didn't attend the meeting but I can tell you this from previous experience that Ben is clueless in his position...often time having to go to Jim Gentry to get guidance...not suprised how he handled this....why he gets some of the more controversial submittals is beyond me....or maybe that is the intent.

SundanceKid said...

I simply cant understand what the purpose of the OVPC really is on issues like this. It seems Ben can tell them anything he wants and not address direct questions even twsiting his words to get around answering. How can the OVPC be so against and sit and say their hands are tied. The documents with the perc test were required with the design review. How even a false perc test is not a huge design review issue is beyond me. I could think of plenty of design issues to have tabled or denyed this on. I'm mean why didnt anyone ask "If we are looking at a design for a school, Where are the classrooms? It seems more this is a design for a treatment center!!"
I mean if someone submitted a design review for hotel and then labeled it a house...shouldn't the obvious question be." It seems we are looking at a design for a hotel not a house." Didn't they look at the interior of it and compare to the Lakeview and Oakley facilities. And then look at "Real" private schools and compare the two different interiors. They would have seen an obvious difference and raised questions.

Bob M said...

Last night was a joke!
It is clear that most(if not all)commissioners do not have the capabilities to be in this position. It was embarrassing.After last night's display by the OVPC I am certain that the petitioners think we are all idiots and are laughing all the way to the bank.

Betty said...

How can Ben Hadfield sleep at night? He LIED last night to a room full of people that KNEW he was lying! Sadly, his brain is not as large as the rest of him.

The Weber county planning dept. is a farce. How could they allow a facility this large, upwards of 60 people on this property, but not allow individuals to build 2 homes there? Several folks have shown interest in building there, but were told there wasn't sufficient frontage for two homes, it's a flag lot, so, sorry but NO!! However, if you are a business,($$$$ signs in the eyes of the county) and have the complete attention of the planning and zoning dept. for the last year and a half, then sure, come on in. It is not a problem that the surrounding neighbors will wallow in and drink the sewage. Their wells may dry up and they get to live next to a parking lot, but who cares,the MONEY wins!!

I'm with Fred. The process needs to be changed or we will just have to go through this over and over. No business of this sort should be allowed in unincorporated Ogden Valley until there is the proper infrastructure,(sewer and city water).

Fred, if you would be so kind as to keep us informed as to what we need to do and where we need to go to do it, it would be great. Folks want to do something, they just don't know where to turn.

Lisa said...

Seems to me that there should be a way to question Bens decision and also the wording on what this "design review" entailed. I don't think that one person should be able to make a decision of this magnitude. I also believe that he should be held accountable. I can't help but think that there is something legal that can be done, maybe with the state as far as licensing for a "school". At the least we should be able to force them to actually be a school, with a full curriculum. I would like to know the criteria for a school and what a school needs to have in order to fall into that category. Also, seems to me we should be able to protect ourselves from these children, who are known to have "serious issues". To have no lock down or big fences or any known plan to keep them there and away from our homes and our families. Call it what you will, I can't think of anyone that isn't afraid of what this might bring to our valley. They say it all comes out in the wash. I sure hope so!

full metal jacket said...

What Fred Said!

Prison walls with razor wire.
Armed guards posted 24 hr on site.
Full security serveillance system with 24hr monitoring.
Siren towers placed throughout the valley.
Road signs placed throughtout the valley"do not pick up hitchickers, may be mental escapees".
I would encourage all concerned residents to have a concealed weapons permit, and carry.

SundanceKid said...

Just got word...that this is the same set of circumstances with the Oakley school. They presented it as a school also. They know how to work the system better than we know. Oh, we have to stop these people. The more I find out the more disgusted I get.

Newcomer said...

Wow... this is unbelievable! I had no clue things were this bad... I apologize for any insinuations of people being over the top or paranoid (except you full metal jacket, who I sincerely hope is joking). So what's the next step? Was that "approval" enough for them to buy the property and start building or is there further approval that would need to take place?? While I still don't think that a facility like this has no place in the Valley, I am very concerned about THIS one in THIS location from what appears to be a very underhanded, sleazy developer...

And anyone know what on earth this is: (it looks like additions to the zoning code specifically for this development)

http://www1.co.weber.ut.us/mediawiki/images/1/1c/Residential_Treatment_Academy_Proposed_Amendments_to_the_Ordinance.pdf

Was this a consequence of this particular event or was this written previously? I'm trying to find the actual text of the zoning ordinance and this turned up in google...

The creation date is Jul 13, 2010 9:38 AM

Teri said...

to Newcomer:

Without looking at the link, based on the date, it was for the proposal on 1300 S. This was the OVPC recommendations for FV3. The proposal was pulled before ever heading to the county commissioners. They still have to get a building permit, and some requirements have to be met. It's not over, but will require even more effort from us to get this stopped.

Full metal jacket may alarm you, but he might not be too far off. For anyone who truly wants to know about this group, and like facilities, do this. Start with google and Jared Balmer. Read everything. Write down every name and business that comes up. Then google those. Then when you think you have figured it out, take an aspirin, or a drink...your choice. You won't even be close to the end. In several weeks when your brain can handle more, have a blast at wiki corp. Using all the names and organizations you already found, watch all the cool graphics. You will find much from newspaper and magazine articles, personal diaries, consumer advocacy groups, business press releases, to state and federal congressional hearings, even presidential campaign questions. There will be much to ponder, and then you will make your own informed decision. I did this last year, apparently Fred has done it this year. We are confined to infrastructure issues during county processes, but I will never be on the welcome wagon team. If this won't motivate you to not wait until it comes to your neighborhood, then nothing will.

Teri said...

Now, after reading the link from newcomer, it is the zoning change made to all the zones except commercial. This is why all the hoopla last night about calling this a school, and not what it is...the elephant in the room at stated by Ms. Warburton. This is why their attorney took over the meeting and directed the commissioners to only look at the site plan. Whether the commissioners' hands were tied is debatable. They are in fact putting a residential treatment facility on 100 s. and believe they have found a loop hole. This property does not qualify as evidenced by the newcomer link.

SundanceKid said...

Also Newcomer...don't be so naive as to think Ben is just the messanger. He had alot more to do with this and he was back pedaling on alot of stuff he told me. The commission makes decisions based on what the planner (in this case) Ben advises them as factual. Its clear you are uneducated on the subject, just as I was a few weeks ago. I suggest you do as Teri said and research online, go into the planning commission office, find out this issues of the community, show up to meetings and listen to them twist the truth then you too will be scratching your head at the end of the day asking how did this get approved?

full metal jacket said...

Newcomer,

Since you were not at the meeting last night, please let me recall what one gentelmen presented befor the committee. He stated that he was a businessman that owned two of these facilites in California(I belive). He went on to say somthing to the affect of " the patience mission is to try and escape" and "they will try and burn the place down if given a chance". He also stated that there was one murder of a caregiver and one suicide that happened at two facilites in Weber county (I belive) last year. This is a man that has first hand knowledge of what goes on in these places.

Yea I'm joking. Ha Ha Ha

You are almost there , now open your eyes all the way.

Teri said...

I have a question. I know there are quite a few people who read and/or post here that do in fact following the planning processes closely. I have vague memories of how unincorporated areas came to get planning commissions. Are we really better off with the OVPC than we were before. It seems to me that the system is damaged greatly, and this body has a difficult time making decisions. The meetings I have attended were dysfunctional at best. GVA notwithstanding, we have big problems. Can anybody give an answer or opinion. Thanks

Newcomer said...

So according to the weber county wiki, the current AV-3 zoning already allows for this type of facility as a conditional use:

See http://www1.co.weber.ut.us/mediawiki/index.php/Agricultural_Valley_Zone_AV-3#5B-4_Conditional_Uses
"Residential facility for troubled youth subject to the requirements listed in Chapter 23-27"

When did that get added? Is there anything more formal than that wiki that would say when this was added? And where do I find Chapter 23-27?

@SundanceKid
I know nothing about Ben so I'm not making any judgements for/against him. It was my understanding that the zoning allowed a school which I think many of us agree this shouldn't qualify as... but given what I"m seeing in the actual zoning for AV-3, it looks like it's already been changed to allow this type of thing... at least under conditional use (which I assume means someone has to give it specific approval, compared to say farming?)

victoria said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Teri said...

I think you have to distinguish between eight kids and 36 kids. The one for eight is allowed in a home setting. I believe the new ordinance for 36 requires 20 acres.

Neighbor said...

I hope everyone is aware that a zoning change of Chap. 22-C was approved a week or two ago that changed the way someone obtains a conditional use permit. For starters, they deleted the section that allowed them to accept or reject the permit, depending on whether it seemed fitting. Now, it is assumed that a conditional use permit WILL be issued, just with, well, conditions. Also, unless they changed the proposed text, you would not have to go in front of the commissioners to get this granted, it would all be done at the planning committee level (i.e., Ben.) I bring this up because it concerns me that these "schools" might be easily granted in areas where they are permitted OR conditional uses.

I agree that we should continue to fight what has happened and also get moving on preventative measures. We need to apply for zoning change that carefully defines what a school is (and isn't.)

SundanceKid said...

Newcomer...it's all about how it's proposed as a school it can have any amount of students they proposed 36. But as a treatment center (which is what it is)they can only have 8. Those chapters your looking for with the requirments are not found in Chapter 23-27 they are a typo. However when you do find the requirements chapter it states they can only have 8 students with a married couple residing with them as house parents. I'll have to go back in my research and I'll post the correct ones.....isn't researching fun?! Would be alot easier if the chapters they referenced were applicable.

SundanceKid said...

http://www.co.weber.ut.us/mediawiki/index.php/Supplementary_and_Qualifying_Regulations#23-14_Residential_Facility_for_Troubled_Youth_-_Facility_Requirementscomer...here's your link.

Hope it works...it's not easy to find.

SundanceKid said...

http://www.co.weber.ut.us/mediawiki/index.php/Supplementary_and_Qualifying_Regulations#23-14_Residential_Facility_for_Troubled_Youth_-_Facility_Requirements


Sorry one more time ...Highlight all the above copy and paste in your browser.

Fred said...

I am glad to see so many participating. Last night I e-mailed the planning and county commissioners to voice my concern about the process being broken and offered to volunteer my time at a working session to plan a way forward to (1) a more precise definition of what constitutes a school and (2) change the process to allow commission members to challenge/review staff decisions and recommendations within the provision of the law.

While we are disappointed at Ben's recommendation, he was executing his duties. What became evident is the process has a potential single point of failure (staff). What was missing was the ability for an objective review of his interpretation and decision when controversy was presented over the primary purpose of the business presented to him. There has to be an avenue for the community to orderly appeal staff's determination.

My next steps are to figure out where the flow of the zoning change request process starts. Any tips on how to find it are appreciated.

What I have found tonight is that there is a Board of Adjustments Review process. Please take a look at this web address: http://www.co.weber.ut.us/mediawiki/images/c/cd/Board_of_Adjustment_Application.pdf. From what I have read, they are charged (1) To hear and decide appeals where it is alleged by the appellant that there is error in any order, requirement, decision, or refusal made in the enforcement of this Ordinance. (2) To interpret the zoning map and zoning ordinance.

I am not an immediate neighbor to GVA, but offer this up to those who are impacted the most to explore and potentially pursue to challenge Ben's decision.

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Stacy Lindsay said...

I have been quite fearful of releasing my name on this blog because it seems to me that someone is out for blood her. I will anyhow. My last comments under anonymous were erased. I have done a tremondous amount of research on Dr. Jared Balmer, the founder of this Green Valley. I have gone to these websites you have directed us to and quite honestly what I found out was this man is really one of the best in his field. He has only owned TWO facilities. The first being a RTC in syracuse and the other being a school in Oakley. I have spoken with the neighbor of the Oakley school who tells me the facility is quite lovely and has had no problems what so ever with the employees, students, etc. She also tells me her property value is unaffected. Most people have no idea what it is other than a lovely cabin. As a resident here I am not saying that this school or RTC should be built what I am saying is we might want to look at this free of passion because it seems to me that there is a lot of ignorance on this subject.

Jim said...

Stacy, Just one question with all due respect.

Would you like to have the Residential Treatment Center built on the lot next your home?

Fred said...

I am chosing to be cautious with releasing my research on Jared Balmer and his partner Kimball DeLaMare. They have more money that me and more lawyers.

I agree with Teri that the spider web that those two have woven is emense and complex. But, it is traceable and their past makes me cringe.

That's why I want to stem the flow of this industry in the Ogden Valley as there are others that are worse out there. One wilderness school in Texas has recorded 14 deaths alone. Dr. Balmer's school has recorded one and I've read an account of one other near death at his facility after a skiing accident due to (alleged) inexperienced staff and mistrust of their patient. Finally one staff member stepped up and took the patient to the hospital where he was diagnosed with a ruptured spleen and would have been dead by the morning.

Their industry has been under scrutiny for some time. But, there is so much money, the industry has managed to heavily influence any attempt to regulate and police their industry.

Once an "Academy" is built, nobody has any power to regulate or police their activities as they are a private business who signed a contract with the legal guardian to change the behavior of the child by whatever means necessary.

I won't publicly render pre-judgement of GVA's operations, but Dr. Balmer's model has been pretty clear from his past schools. They need to reach 100+ students to make it viable to potential buyers. We can expect that if the school is built, it will be expanded to reach this threshold.

If you want to read some GAO reports about this industry in general, you can go to this wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Residential_treatment_center

To Address Stacy's comment.

Jared Balmer has an approach to his residential treatment centers that is built on the antiquated tough love model made popular a few decades ago and was brought back to Utah by his partner, Kimball DeLaMare. It was once hailed as a way to correct troubled teens, but the long haul evidence is showing otherwise.

Alumni of Dr. Balmer's schools that I have corresponded with said that they eventually just told his staff whatever they wanted to hear to get out of the facility. They were blamed for their condition when they are really the symptom of a much larger family issue. None want to return to his facilities and many continue to have nightmares.

Some did admit learning a thing or two. But they became wiser about how to game life because their parents abandoned them to the facility, the staff never trusted them, and so they learned to depend on one another and game the system until they are released.

Successful programs are ones that require intense family participation. Because it is often a family issue, not just one child. Having a once a month tele-conference with the parent is not enough. But, then the profit motive is to keep the child in the facility as long as possible.

I'm sure Dr. Balmer is an expert in his "industry." I won't dispute that. He's become very rich off it. But, there are many way better programs out there that are achieving much higher results, at much less cost, with far fewer patients in their facility.

Stacy Lindsay said...

Jim, Thank you for this question. Not really if the truth be known. But this facility will be a school for kids with depression, and anxiety problems. Have you ever had anxiety? Have you ever had depression? I have, and I'm telling you that I would never escape a school and "rape your chilren, rape your livestock, steal your horse, etc." The allegations on this subject I feel are embarrasing to us a community. I don't believe these people are money mongers like they have been accused of. After my research I really believe these people care about what they do. I have heard that these people have had death threat against them as well as the people on the county seat. I feel embarrased to be part of a community that would participate in that kind of behavior. I can say with confidence Jim, I would much rather have this school by me than to have some of these people on this blog living by me. This has gotten out of control.

Betty said...

Stacy, you missed the real issue here. Folks are not as worried about the kinds of kids the facility would allow as they are about their water being polluted and their wells running dry. This entire area sits on wells and septic systems, hence the 3 acre requirement to build. You have to stay spread out to keep from drinking each others sewage and contaminating each others wells. A facility this size on this small of a lot, with 24/7 live in patients would have way too much impact on the surrounding neighbors. Also, none of these neighbors signed up to live next to a business with 60 people, and a parking lot with 44 parking stalls and lighting. You can say goodbye to the night sky and start drinking the sewage!

Stacy Lindsay said...

I haven't missed the point, Betty.

Newcomer said...

Stacy,
Be careful about implicating everyone (there are many sane/well meaning people posting on here and I made the same mistake a few days ago expressing my disappointment of the (what I thought then was many) over the top comments.

But I think it's very clear that the GVA folks are trying to shoehorn something that is NOT (just) a school and does NOT fit in with the spirit or the letter of the allowed uses for AV-3 zoning. Ignore the wackos that post, and look at all the people earnestly trying to rationally explain why it's a bad idea... Whether of not the owner of the GVA is a good or a bad person, putting something that is not a good fit for that specific area or zone is NOT something that necessarily has anything to do with their character (although I get the sense that they're openly and knowingly pushing for something that the current zoning does NOT and probably shouldn't allow, for some of the reasons that Betty cited). I think there are a lot of people who feel powerless to stop something from going in that according to the law, SHOULDN'T be going in (see the links above for the permitted and conditional uses of that zone).

Posting underhanded comments and fear tactics about the people involved or the worst-case scenarios is in my opinion a poor way to achieve ones those means and I don't agree with it personally and I doubt many people posting/reading this do. But this is the wild west of the internet... people will type something they'd never say or do in person...

Teri said...

I have posted many many times here on this blog and I stand by what I have written. I have sat through most of the official and unofficial meetings that have taken place over the course of the last eight months or so. I was there when Dr Balmer tried to sell this to the citizens near 1300 S. I was there when he was confronted about his practice of selling his schools to Aspen Education. His reply was he could only state he wasn't going to sell today. I was there when he could not deny that he might enlarge the school to 100 students. I was there when Dr Balmer stated he knew we hated what he was doing, that everyone hated it, but in five years we would get over it. I was there during the heated discussion about primary and secondary diagnoses. I was there when he stated his group was no longer involved with the Aspen group, the same time that a press release was highlighting the promotion of Mr. Bulloch at the Syracuse school. I was there when Mr Bulloch accused of us of just not liking kids, and when he knew what it was like when organizations put things in neighborhoods that didn't belong like the storage buildings in his neighborhood.

I have been here watching the existing laws being mauled, changed openly and perhaps very quietly within the last two weeks to accommodate this business. I have gone through the building process myself and have been amazed at the degree of difficulty placed on a single family home petitioner not asking for a zone change. I do know that lot that is the site for this proposal. It is not a good fit. It is a site that would not accommodate two single family homes, but will be allowed to fit a business that is being challenged by its stated name and its actual name.

Offended people don't want me to not have passion. It's not going to happen. I stand by everything that I post. I am angry and frustrated by the whole process. I am going to remain convinced that this process is being manipulated by a few at the expense of many.

If you want to call me out for my offensive behavior, do so openly. Do not attack all, do not attack the blog. Do not complain about an offensive post and turn around and shotgun blast the blog community. I am not concerned that you think I am an embarrassment to the community. And I not going to leave. I will stay a citizen participant in the county process when I believe the neighborhood is being abused.

SundanceKid said...

At the end of the day when you read through all the post. You can definitely see who has all the info and who doesn't. It's almost comical that people will post comments about the people posting on here and even the founder. Trying to point out how we are not taking the "rational, calm, and correct approach to this whole situation." This honestly sounds like the petitioner's of this school and their physco bable. But when they are asked if they would like something like this next to them and even yourself the reply is NO!!! I have looked at all the pros and cons. And fortunatly I have the means of coming by information you can't get on the web. I have alot of acquaitences that live in Oakley/Kamas/Peoa and also in WestPoint/Syracuse. These acquaitences have worked or continue to work at these schools and the local law enforcement offices. And as I stated at the meeting there are laws that do not allow the public access to info. But as much as you think you know about something their is a whole pile of info you'll never hear.
Stacy...Im sure the person you talked to might have a different look at the RTC now that it has come to pass and have tried to make peace withit, unless they are a completly bitter person. But from what I understand the fight in Oakley still continues. And you could do a little research and pull up the Summit County minutes when this was presented before them and you will defintley get some insite on just how the neighbors felt about the RTC. You can also request copies of all the concerned letters the community sent in. Again one opionion on the subject doesn't reflect the whole community. Case in point here with you. I get really annoyed when people get on here posting about how were being irrational and bla, bla, bla. And how they try on somehow make it ok it's put in next to my house. But then asked if they want it next to there's...and they dont want it. So I say everyone should ask themselves this...Would I like this next to my house? And If you answer is NO, then get onboard. You would want the community behind you on this trust me. One last thing don't think Im being irrational or careless...Im just passionate about the valley, the water in provides me, the security it gives me and peace of mind I get in stressful times.

cowboy said...

Hey Stacy

I think its a great idea to build this looney bin right next to your house! Thant way we can keep one eye on all of your kind+.

Betty said...

Kudos to Teri, who writes eloquently about each of our first amendment rights, freedom of speech, and the right we each have to protect and defend what is ours. That is how our country was founded.

Much of what is happening in the valley is born of frustration because of the lack of representation here. If everyone hasn't figured it out by now, Ogden Valley is the red headed stepchild of Weber county. We pay the lions share of the taxes, but have no representation. I moved here 11 years ago to get out of the "city" (Davis County). While we were residents there, the same exact thing happened to us. Doctors came and tried to buy the family home next door to us, to put in a treatment center for emotionally disturbed kids. The neighbors rallied together, and went to the Layton City Council, who said to us, you're right, this doesn't fit into the middle of a neighborhood, and they turned it down. It still scared us enough to make us want to get out. So we moved up here, and just the building process alone should have given us a clue about Weber County. It was literally painful to build in unincorporated Ogden Valley. We were forced to jump through many, many hoops just to be able to build here. It took much time and money, and we have considered it a privilege to be here. However, since moving here, it has become painfully obvious that those of us here in Ogden Valley don't really count. Even though we vote and pay taxes, we are not supposed to expect to be protected by the county laws and ordinances. Those are for the people down below. We just get to watch and be grateful for the crumbs that are thrown to us. At this point in time, I have had to become a political activist. That is not a terrible thing, but it seems that not a month goes by that some issue comes up that we have to fight for or against. Powder Mountain, rock crushers, helicopter pads in the middle of downtown, abused and neglected animals not being cared for, Green Valley Academy, and now just this week, the neighbor in my backyard is shooting the elk that come down in the evenings, right in our neighborhood, all legal under some crappy DWR rule. Now we have to see how to stop people from shooting high powered rifles in our neighborhood. It just doesn't seem to stop, and the frustrating thing is that the county doesn't care. The law seems to always protect the people with the most money. These kinds of frustrations leave people with such a sour taste in their mouths for government. It seems pointless to try and fight or stand up for our rights. But, we can't give up. One of the best quotes that I know says, "The only thing that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Do not allow evil to triumph. Do not sit by and do nothing. Let's keep trying, and hopefully we will get a victory. As for people like Stacy, you just sit around and be nice. We'll do the work for you.

Fred said...

Well, I can see lots of folks are getting stuff off their chest!

But, it's time to get back to work.

I'll try to post this again. I have tried to contact Weber County Planning about the Board of Adjustment Application Form (click the link to see the form.

The language leads me to believe this is a potential appeal avenue that could be used for Ben Hadfield's interpretation of GVA's primary purpose.

My phone call was not answered, but I have an e-mail request submitted asking if this is the appropriate avenue. I'll let you know what I find out.

Take a look and see if you come to the same conclusion as me.

Fred said...

Have I mentioned that the blogspot software that drives this forum is really an antiquated piece of junk?

When you click this link Board of Adjustment Application, the software will force it into the mini comment window and make it impossible to view. You will see a disk icon on the PDF viewer that shows the form, just click it and save a copy to your disk and then open it from there to see it in full size.

SundanceKid said...

Fred...I'll let you in please send me an email. clverhaal@yahoo.com

Fred said...

For those who are interested, I received a response from Sean Wilkinson, Planner, regarding my question about whether the Board of Adjustments Review Board is the appropriate process to use to appeal the planning commission recommendation and staff's decision.

"In response to your question, the Board of Adjustment hears appeals where it is alleged that there is error in any order, requirement, decision, or refusal made in the enforcement of the Zoning Ordinance. The Board of Adjustment also has the authority to interpret the Zoning Ordinance. For these types of cases you would use the Board of Adjustment application. However, the Zoning Ordinance states that a decision made by the Planning Commission on a design review or conditional use application is appealed to the County Commission, not the Board of Adjustment. Please let me know if you have any questions or need additional clarification."

Tero said...

Fred, I do have questions for a letter I am writing. Could you email your phone # at w84me2ck@hotmail.com

Homer said...

Fred, in case you are not in the know, the planning group is of the same mindset as all Utah leaders. Growth and job creation are the coin of the realm.

In their view, that must be maintained no matter what the cost is to our environment or our life style.

Just be aware you are against a stacked deck in any appeal process, no matter how valid your argument.

Nostradamus said...

It may be time to point out the obvious. As long as the people in Weber County continue to reelect the same people as WC Commissioners or replace a dunski with another dunski, these types of decisions will continue to happen. An analysis of the last election shows that the people of the County elect these people by a large margin. Until the bulk of the voters decide to make a change, the decisions on growth will all remain the same and our Valley will become a Park City type of location.

Single point said...

Having a single person making the decision is what we called in the navy a "single point of failure". When a mechanical system is so important that failure is not an option, a single piece of equipment that would cause the whole system to shut down is a "single point of failure."

I totally agree that the aforementioned person on the staff should not be the one making the decision. When I wanted to build a garage on my property that person said it could only be a certain size and wouldn't listen to anything I said. Then, when I actually read the ordinance, it didn't apply to my situation at all. I petitioned the planning commission and they overturned that person's decision.

We can't leave the beauty of our valley and its unique character to a "single point of failure" decision maker!

Fred said...

I've read a lot of comments about how the Planning Commission and Weber County Commission don't care and it's all about the money. I don't have enough experience to render judgement.

But, I think I have enough experience to know that the burden of proof is upon us, the community. GVA has found an avenue and while it is obviously not a good fit in its current location, the law and zoning favors them at this time.

Jared Balmer, by his own admission on the first go around, stated that his business is a hybrid approach that zoning does not specifically address and thus he has to pick the closest one.

This is not just a Weber County Problem. It is a national dilema that commissions and communities are grappling with. If we rally to institute a clear definition of RTC's in the zoning and then define zones in which they are permitted as well as stipulations, we won't have to continually battle these businesses trying to find somewhere to "fit."

To further this cause, I have built a mailing list that concerned Ogden Valley citizens can subscribe to who want to contribute to evolving a solution and presenting it to the county. You can join the list by clicking this link to read the terms and sign up. This will allow us to collaborate via our inboxes. I look forward to your participation!