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Wednesday, April 22, 2009

Meeting on Pineview Water Quality

On Wednesday May 6th at 5PM a GEM meeting at the Huntsville Library will focus on the latest water qualtiy report for Pineview Reservoir which was commissioned by Weber Basin. Professor Darwin Sorensen, USU Water Research Lab, is the principle investigator and will present the study. 

We encourage all residents to attend this meeting regarding theValley’s most important resource. 

Your VCRD Staff 


Anonymous said...

I am betting it will be a propaganda meeting. The Research Lab will say Pineview is being contaminated by septic systems and poor geological underlayments of the drainage soil base.

They are in collusion with the Weber County Commission and others who want to force a massive sewer system on the Valley. This way the Realtors can push for much smaller lot sizes (one quarter acre or less) in cluster subdivisions at all our expense.

What they will not tell you is this:
-Pineview is like a toilet bowl. It holds a capacity of 110,000 acre feet when full.

But in a season 250,000 acre feet of water goes through it enroute to what was 25,000 acres of farmland in the past (which is now substantially far less with residential subdivision growth in the lower valley areas). The two major water companies (Ogden and Weber Water Districts) sell the water to give themselves raises and benefits. Together, they own 100,000 acre feet of water from Pineview.

The result annually is a drained off reservoir from late July until Dec and resulting very shallow areas. The sun heats the water where such swallows occur and thus the algae blooms and "twisted" nitrogen and other imbalances which the traditional water quality research labs love to falsely claim are due to human pollutants (septic systems, animal wastes, fertilizers, etc). Thus giving false premises for a valley wide sewer system.

There have been at least five of these studies in the past 50 to 70 years. The most recent a Pineview Total Maximum Daily Loads (TMDL) study done a couple of years ago by the EPA (John Whitehead - from SLC was the OPR). The "research group" (hired of course by the Gov't) tried valiantly to inject bogus assumptions into their software modeling and at the urging of those who would benefit in other financial ways, tired to bias the results at every bend and turn.
They will no doubt again be present and presenting bogus and misleading information which will sound very convincing and authoritative.

Do not buy into it. Instead insist on a totally independent (outside of Utah) and credible water quality study. Or better yet reject the recommendations for what they very likely will be. Pure Bull shit. By the way every water quality study done in the last 75 years says any pollutants in Pineview have nothing to do with septic systems.

But do NOT rely on any "scientific research study" data which says any different. Or then again do so, if you are a real estate or developer type person or Dr. ____ of the Ogden Municipal or Weber County Water District looking to increase your empire and annual salary. By all means! We can all sell off our land and leave a Valley of rooftops as our legacy.

If I am wrong, I apologize to all involved.

Don't Be Snowballed said...

Amen, brother. I agree fully.

Skipper said...

Whatever the data shows, the problem is getting worse and with the constant flow of nitrates and phosphates into Pineview, we will have a algae lake
out there if this continues. The first thing that should be done is to stop all new construction using septic tanks.

Squirt said...

I certainly hope that some of people above show up to the meeting and speak out about their concerns. The growth of this Valley cannot continue unless we upgrade some of the waste disposal systems.

Anonymous said...

The answer is NOT as "the Skipper" and "Squirt" says.

The answer is for the two entities which hold 100,000 acre feet of water to donate or sell off their claims for too much irrigation water and thus leave Pineview more full. Let it return to a cold water fishery instead of the borderline warm water the over draining causes.

But then don't hold your breath. There are too many people who "think" like "Skipper" and "Squirt" and are just plain ignorant of the facts and causal factors.

Either THAT or they have other agendas aimed at profiteering off land in the Valley by assisting with a sea of rooftops.

Nitrogen and phosphates do not harm agricultural crops. In fact they help them. And Pineview water is NOT repeat NOT used as drinking water.

Common sense said...

The nitrates and phosphates come from horse shit. Limit animals or enforce horses/cattle per acre County Ordnances and watch the pollutants go down.

How much horse shit comes from the McKay horses which number about 30 or so which pollute Spring Creek. How about the McKay woman professor who keeps inbred sheep and horses also directly polluting Spring Creek which empties directly into Pineview. Now add the large herd of cattle just east of Huntsville and all that manure to the surface water and runoff. No mystery here people. Raw horse, sheep and cattle crap directly into Pineview.

The crap comes from horses. cows and sheep, not from septic systems as at least five studies have proven. The heat/water warming comes from the shallows after they drain Pineview down in the fall. Put the warm water with sheep, horse, and cow shit and you get blue algae blooms...lake stink and fools who want you to pay for a Valley wide sewer system.

Enforcing animal ordinances is a far cheater and more reasonable alternative.

Renate said...

Just keep telling yourselves that baloney and you will wind up with a fully polluted body of water and maybe you should. It may be the one way that growth up here will stop and property values will plunge even more. Good thinking!

Larry Zini said...

We appreciate the input of everyone, but we believe that we are facing a serious crisis with Pineview reservoir. The increase in the Nitrogen and Phosphorus levels can cause "dead spots" even in a cold water body of water no matter how deep.

Big Bear Lake in California is a good example of what can go wrong with high levels of these compounds in a high altitude lake with strong sun penetration. They had to buy machines to cut the algae and weeds so people could get to their boat docks and recreate on the lake. They finally banned new septic tanks (there are no significant farm animals in the Bear Valley). They are still using those algae cutting machines.

If Pineview water quality gets away from us, it may be impossible to get it back. We should listen to this report with an open mind and consider what is best for the long range health of Pineview and Valley residents.

Larry and Sharon Zini

Just a country boy said...

"They finally banned new septic tanks (there are no significant farm animals in the Bear Valley). They are still using those algae cutting machines."

Point being; stopping new septic systems did nothing, since septic systems shutdown in favor of an expensive sewer system did nothing. Nothing at all.

Do yourself a favor. Drive around the Valley and count the cows, sheep, and horses. Then multiply the total count by a factor of ten since each animal craps 24/7 and in volume of at least ten times as much as you do.

And then consider that these animals do not go downtown to work or shop or on vacations. They just "hang out, eat and crap" seven days and nights a week (24/7) directly into creeks, streams, and water recharge areas where normally the water is cleansed.

I know an olderster who has ten acres and barn with ten stalls where he keeps ten head of horses. Each Spring the barn stalls are two to three feet deep in horse manure (very hot/high in weed seed and especially nitrogen/nitrates) after wintering inside.

What does he do, and has always done for the past 50 years, every Spring? He takes his tractor with front loader and mucks out all that winter horse crap and dumps it directly into Spring Creek which leads directly into Pineview. He says he has never been concerned about Pineview water quality since it is only used as secondary irrigation water over in Ogden.

That alone is the equilivant of 100 people crapping and pissing immense amounts of unfiltered and untreated waste directly into Pineview. And that is only 10 horses!

I personally counted 136 horses within eyesight last Spring driving only from Liberty intersection to Huntsville. I did not count cattle or sheep.

Haven't we had enough of "Environmental enthusiasts", usually from California, trying to tell us how to ruin Utah like they apparently have done in most parts of California? Have we not had enough of overzealous Real Estate and Developer types, again usually from California, trying to profiteer off our Utah ignorance?

Californicator said...

There are many Golden State transferees who want to change the Valley to the way it is in California. And some (many)"Real Estate and Developer types" also from the Golden State and beyond.

Many are lured here for the quaintness, then want the luxuries of home. The new commercial strip mall in Eden across from Iverson Dental is an excellent example.

Some Hawaiian transplants wanted to leave us with a little bit of paradise in the form of an empty eyesore just because the new commercial building reminds them of strip malls back "home."

Please take your strip mall and surfboard and go homo.

It needs to be a little inconvenient to live here. Maybe we should ban septic systems and instead use porta potties. They can be pumped every few months, are sealed and safe.

Wake up Call said...

What are we going to do, get rid of the farmers and agriculture in the Valley? Get real, you dopes spend all your time living in the past without regard to the damage your old ways do for everyone else and the future. You said it right, ignorance is rampant among some of these 18th century thinkers in the Valley.

Renate said...

What is with all these insulting comments? Can't we all recognize there is a problem here? The fact is, the water in Pineview is getting worse all the time. It is not the issue of drinking the water, it is the fact that the high increase in Nitrogen and Phosphates needs to be controlled. It may be that both septic tanks and farming contributes to this, but it still must be corrected or we could lose one of our most attractive and beautiful assets.

Logic dictates that you are not going to force the farmers and animals out of the Valley, so we have to consider other alternatives to stop the degradation of the water in Pinevew.

Nice debate-hope people are paying attention said...

You don't "farm" horses. Horses have not been "farm" animals in more than 100 years.

Fact: There are more horses per person in Utah than any State in the Union.

Simply because the State and County does not enforce limits you see as many as five horses on a half acre (or less) backyard lot.

Why does the McKay woman still have inbred sheep and horses stuffed together N. of Huntsville for example?

"Farm animals"...that is pure male bovine excrement - and more of it destined for Pineview no doubt.

The only "farm animals" are still in the Valley to evade high property taxes by using the ironically named "Green" exemptions for taxation by developers and large family-owned land holdings. They pay only 8 to 15 pennies an acre so long as they can claim they have horses, sheep or cattle on the land.

The State legislators need to amend the Farm land property taxation statutes to eliminate "pleasure horses". We don't eat horse meat just quite yet...

And while they are at it perhaps pass some immigration laws limiting Californificators. (Just kidd'in around of course)

Californicator said...

Wake up call said: "What are we going to do, get rid of the farmers and agriculture in the Valley?"

As a matter of fact we have gotten rid of the farmers and agriculture in the Valley to make way for the Californicators. There are just a very small handful of Farmers (one or two) left as they have sold out to developers. And they call it PROGRESS?

Machster said...

No one keeps a record or counts how many horses, cows and sheep their are in Ogden Valley. This according to our vet.

Currently, should anyone care to take a Sunday drive, pasture areas have become virtual "Feed Lots" for uncontrolled numbers four legged animals.

Just within plain sight of the roadways alone there are more then 500 horses and cattle. And although cattle raising has declined, the number of horses are totally out of control and limits unenforced by anyone. This has occurred thanks to our "legislators" who within the past ten years passed a statute which made "pleasure horses" qualify as "agricultural products/crops". Therefore; landowners could simply keep horses to get immense property tax deductions.

These pastures typically are water recharge areas (traditionally where surface water is cleansed) and streams and creeks wander throughout where horses/cattle/sheep stay 24/7, 365/yr. All the while crapping and peeing directly on and into the surface and ground water tables at a rate at least ten times that of you and me.

The pollution of Pineview is NOT rocket science. A little common sense says after an expensive Sewer District (with taxing authority) is put in, Pineview water quality will remain as it is until the pastures are sold off and turned into rooftops by the normal business of the real estate and developers.

So why not simply demand (or politely suggest) that Weber County act on this problem by limiting the numbers of horses, sheep or cattle within water recharge areas (like the old Bison Creek areas and present Two Rivers) and within certain distances of say...Spring Creek, Ogden River, etc.?

Pass THAT ordinance, enforce it, wait five years and re-evaluate the impact on Pineview Res. TMDL.

Lots cheaper and makes far better sense than jumping rope for the horse holders of the real estate lobby by forcing a sewer district on people and significantly changing the Ogden Valley into another Park City mess of sprawl and unplanned growth.

Just one man's opinion....

J. Denver said...

I Have lived in the valley for a long time, so did my parents and their parents. Needless to say I have seen the valley change.

When I was growing up before 1950 there use to be 30-40 dairies with calf operations going on. (For all of you people that do not know what a dairy is: it is a thing with a lot of cows.)

The Valley only has 2 maybe 3, if you push it a bit, major herds of cows. Once again for all of you people that cannot count that means that YOU CANNOT BLAME IT ON THE COWS!!!

Now that is out of the way: the sheep population, HAS ALSO DECLINED DRAMATICALLY!!!

The only other animal that has been blamed is the horse. The valley has always had a large number of horses back in the day, just like it does now. When something stays the same and something else changes, it means that IT IS NOT THEM EITHER!!!

Just in case you do decide to get rid of the livestock, why not get rid of the wildlife too. I mean the elk, moose, and deer produce just as much waste as a cow each, and while you are at it might as well get of the birds too, since there are so many of them. (Just in case you missed it, I was being sarcastic.)

Hopefully some of you can put two and two together. When the animal population has dive bombed; you cannot blame them. I know that one of them produce a lot more waste than a human, but look at the rise of the human population over the last 50 years, even 10 years it has increased by quite a bit.

Before you pass any laws that restrict the number of livestock: look at the numbers.While everyone is fighting over what do to to solve the problem, why not run some of the numbers and compare them to historical charts or figure it out some other way. Personally, before any blame is thrown; I think it would be good to get some numbers down on the table to compare.

Life ain't nothing but a funny, funny riddle!! Thank God I'm a country boy.

Anonymous said...

Hey Mr. Denver: That ain't even bullshit. It's pure horseshit! And I think you know it...